The imagined discussions that would preceed supposed "demolition" of the twin towers and WTC7

Hello.

I was responding to someone on FaceBook about WTC7 and then I got to thinking how absurd the discussions might've been had it truly been demolitions that went on back then.

"let's plant silent explosives that will go off silently while everyone's watching from around the world after most of the people below impact has escaped"
...
"especially, let's blow up this obscure WTC-tower few cared about prior to 9/11 so as to point to a lease-holder for no reason"
...
"let's also make the towers collapse as fast as possible so that people can speculate it was demolitions even though we supposedly control these demolitions"
...
"and, guys, not a word. Scout's honor"

These were of course made up by me and satirical. but they highlight logical problems with the demolition-theories.

One could imagine other absurd statements, like:

"let's plant plane parts in New York City without anyone seeing it in one of the biggest cities in the world"
...
"also, let's destroy 2 of USA's most iconic building as an excuse to attack Iraq and Afghanistan and lose trillions of dollars and thousands of human lives in messes that won't be solved in 17 years"
...
"let's shoot down United 93 with a missile for no reason by a plane noone has seen shoot a missile at it"
...
"we have to make AQ-videos spewing anti-American propaganda for years of course"

Yes, these are exaggerations and imaginary, but they truly highlight how illogical it would have been to do these things that conspiracy theories would have us believe "they" did.

There's also some "conspiratainment" in them.

Happy Easter!

What truthers and debunkers have in common

What truthers and debunkers have in common

My first blog post in a while.

Intro

There are 3 things that I recently found both sides of these 9/11 conspiracy debates have in common. Let me get started right away.

First thing in common

Both sides at times see many on the other side as shilling for or being with the perpetrators or those responsible for 9/11. This is a generalization of course, and not all do this, and those that do may not claim all on the other side do this. But I am sure you've heard truthers claim debunkers are "government shills" or may have been called that yourself numerous times.

As a debunker, you might think several truthers sort of "shill" for the attackers by calling them "patsies" etc.

Either one side is correct or neither is correct.

Second thing in common

Both sides might think the other side is stupid or that they're "idiots".

Truthers may and often do call debunkers "sheep".

Debunkers often use the term "twoofers".

There are variations of course for both sides, but still. It's interesting how both sides believe this about the other.

Here I guess both COULD be correct. We ALL could be idiots, or, in the best case, none.

Often in real life though: people generally don't call actual idiots "idiots".

What I think it's really about here in the case of 9/11 are very different points of view making neither side unable to understand the perspective of the other side.

Truthers internally may be unable to understand other factions of the truther-community, but that's a separate issue.

The third thing in common

Finally, both sides often these days feel like the debate is over.

Truthers for their part have almost since I can recall when I began to look at this, perhaps in 2005 or so, said "We know what happened".

They also have videos claiming 9/11 has been "solved", but then point in the totally wrong direction and without evidence, but that's besides the point. The point is they claim it has been "solved".

You can probably think of variants of these where they basically say it's over.

Us debunkers may think these discussions sort of "ended" around 2011 or 2012 perhaps. At least, after 2006. We might think it's 2006 all the time in "trutherland" as many truthers seem to use arguments stemming from roughly that time-period although some arguments made then had been launched earlier.

So, many of us debunkers feel the debate is indeed over and that truthers lost (sorry truthers, just saying from our perspective). It was AQ that did it in our point of view with some of the finer details like what Saudi-Arabia did or what the support-network of the hijackers in the US were etc. to be worked out.

End thoughts

Although 3 things in common sounds pretty positive, I do not think it helps us move forward unfortunately. 

But it is very interesting how both sides can be so convinced of being correct even though the perspectives are so different so that likely one side ought to be correct, while the other isn't. Not saying which side though, even if I have my opinion as I wrote under the 3rd thing we have in common.

But perhaps these 3 things in common might make some of us more humble and understanding towards the other.

And you can probably come up with more things in common, such as how we both say we want to get to the truth and spread the truth. Hopeful I guess.

The Tube

Introduction

Thought about the famous speech from the movie "Network" and how one can slightly modify it and get a fairly meaningful text today about YouTube as opposed to Television as he was talking about in the movie. Will write [YouTube] where "Television" has been replaced by me.

Have also cut up the speech a bit to have a more coherent speech and one that is fitting the "YouTube generation". I will write "..." where bigger parts of the speech has been cut away.

Disclaimer: I don't think there's anything wrong with YouTube as such and actually love it, but it depends on what one watches there.

Speech

"And woe is us! We're in a lot of trouble!!

...

Because less than 3 percent of you people read books.

Because less than 15 percent of you read newspapers.

Because the only truth you know is what you get over this tube.

Right now, there is a whole, an entire generation that never knew anything that didn't come out of this tube.

This tube is the gospel, the ultimate revelation.

...

So, you listen to me. Listen to me!

[YouTube] is not the truth. [YouTube]'s a goddamn amusement park. [YouTube] is a circus, a carnival, a traveling troupe of acrobats, storytellers, dancers, singers, jugglers, sideshow freaks, lion tamers, and football players.

...

But, man, you're never gonna get any truth from us. We'll tell you anything you wanna hear. We lie like hell. ... We'll tell you any shit you want to hear.

We deal in illusions, man. None of it is true! But you people sit there, day after day, night after night -- all ages, colors, creeds. We're all you know!

You're beginning to believe the illusions we're spinning here!

You're beginning to think that the tube is reality and that your own lives are unreal.

You do whatever the tube tells you --

You dress like the tube.

You eat like the tube.

You raise your children like the tube.

You even think like the tube.

This is mass madness, you maniacs!"

Fairly fitting, right?

Going to FEMA camp this summer?

Summer time among other things means a time for different camps people of different ages can go to.

Will you go to FEMA camp this summer?

It has all the Kool-Aid you can drink! One of the perks.

They also have pools at the FEMA camps. Pools of molten steel... Very hot, but strong as...well, steel.

Who can attend the FEMA camp? 

Well, being a truther is a sure bet it seems according to some conspiracy theorists.

That's your ticket in. or, actually, you don't need a ticket! VIPs only though. Many prolonged stays however...

You can get to "shill" with the Debunkers at FEMA camp!

Experiences

Help yourself to a Bilderberger or maybe enjoy a "gubermint".

Don't worry, US taxpayers pay...

There's also waterboarding!

Ah, false flags are in the air... nothing like FEMA camp...

Day or night, FEMA camp attendees will be subject to attempts to "wake them up", sometimes literally.

The Illuminati is there to help with the lighting...

You can actually get your very own black box at FEMA camp! A personal one and it's actually black, not orange. Big though. or so says Alex Jones and he has shown pictures and videos.

FEMA camp is not to everybody's liking of course. "A few fries short of a Happy Meal" as they say. "A burger short of a combo meal", "a few tacos short of a fiesta platter", "a few toppings short of a Deluxe Pizza", "a few burgers short of a barbeque".

Supposedly some "bite the dust", but that's unconfirmed.

In summary

Either way you slice it, FEMA camp is quite an experience!

The Disaster Movement?

Have you noticed a tendency in the 9/11 "truth movement" and other conspiracy groups to quite often seem to predict impending doom, a disaster, a collapse or a new world war?

Well, at least I have. I'll give you some examples.

Michael Ruppert

Michael Ruppert was a truther who became sort of famous from a lecture he held that he turned into a movie about 9/11. It seems like it didn't go so well for him after that and he got depressed and was in a documentary simply called "Collapse". Here's a 2-minute clip:

RIP Michael Ruppert...

AMTV

You have likely heard about Christopher Greene and/or AMTV if you have checked out conspiracies on YouTube:

A search for "collapse amtv" gives you 8,690 results on YouTube:

Even more results for "ww3 amtv": 11,900:

StormCloudsGathering

StormCloudsGathering is another common account on YouTube with many views that delves into conspiracy theories:

StormCloudsGathering is Aaron Hawkins in real life. 2,610 results for "collapse storm clouds gathering":

Alex Jones

The uncrowned chamption of disaster theories and fearmongering(without seemingly honestly worried - he acts scared at times only) is Alex Jones. We can see that in the numbers:

His website is of course infowars. 313,000 results from "collapse infowars". If you search for "ww3 infowars" you get slightly more results, 333,000:

I just included the first hit in the search results above

Hypocritical illogical reversed stance

Ironically, many of these conspiracy theorists that so quickly yell disaster, collapse, WW3 etc. then minimizes real threats like say terrorists or the risks of guns in USA (about 9,000 gun murders per year) or climate change. These are just some examples of real threats they play down. That can make you at times wonder whose side they're on and if they're really "patriots" as at least Alex Jones claims to be.


Referring back to the above examples and others, you have to wonder: is the truth movement in fact the disaster movement?

Just a thought.

nano-thermite advocates have not discussed something which may cast doubt on their whole theory...

Steven Jones and Niels Harrit are very likely the most prominent nano-thermite advocates when it comes to 9/11. They have of course given out the paper in which it was claimed that nano-thermite was found. Others claim it was paint chips...

nano-thermite has been one of the leading theories among truthers. Not everyone has believed in it among the truthers, but seemingly a majority has and still likely do.


Interesting discussion I had with 2 nano-researchers

Yesterday was interesting for me as I was at an institute where I have studied to finish parts of something I studied earlier. This institute is at college- or university-level and certainly has a lot of advanced technology also compared with the rest of the world.

One department deals with nano-technology, like materials and physics at the nano-level. I have not studied that topic though and never been there even though I've passed it many times as it's in the same building as where I was. Not even a teacher I talked to said he was sort of related to them.

I've been curious about this department before, but not gone farther than that. Yesterday though I saw 2 men that maybe looked Pakistani or Indian that seemed to belong to it so I thought I could ask them if they had heard about nano-thermite ever. They had not.

but some of what they told me was very interesting and especially one thing, which perhaps isn't exactly news, but it's not something anyone I have seen have brought up in 9/11-discussions about thermite before(I may have missed it of course).

First, one man I had seen exit the department, told me that if you make something nano-sized, the melting point usually drops, decreases. That's pretty important to keep in mind if we imagine someone wanted something that could withstand fire...

The Second, most important thing, which the first is a part of, is that the other man told me that properties at the nano-level of a material often changes. So, he told me for example that Gold at the nano-scale is not golden in color, but green! He also mentioned some other element or compound that at the nano-level became very strong if you made like a coil or like thin "rope" of it. He also told me about a research project, but I'm not sure I should mention that here.

This 2nd man told me many properties could change at the nano-level like electric conductivity and others mentioned before and more.


Questions

My discussion with these 2 men made me think that maybe Steven Jones, Niels Harrit and others don't even know how thermite works at the nano-scale? How can they be certain that thermite which works in one way at the macro-level ("normal" size) will behave the same way at the nano-scale?


I will maybe try to seek out another department more specialized in materials than this one that the 2nd man I talked to recommended me to contact and ask more about this...


Disclaimers

Small "disclaimer" here: I know several have claimed that the US military have nano-thermite as used in demolition or at least had, but I have not seen it proven as far as I can remember. I'm not saying that is not true, or that thermite cannot work the same way at the nano-scale, but I'm trying to point out that at least in the 9/11 conspiracy-world the properties of nano-thermite has not been researched at all as far as I know. By that I don't mean dust samples from Ground Zero, but research on known thermite at the nano-level where its properties are tested and documented.

2nd "disclaimer" is that research on this has been done that I'm just not aware of. If so it's my bad, but I thought this was interesting to bring up.

Alex Jones joined my FB-group...

I haven't written so much about myself, but I am on FaceBook as well as most who have read this blog knows.

I also have a group there about 9/11, called "9/11 Conspiracy Theories are an Inside Job!". I take a stance in the group against the conspiracy theories against 9/11, but I welcome truthers and debunkers alike. I want there to be fair & equal treatment of all members as long as they don't break any rules in a bad way. A stance is also taken against anti-semitism so I have decided that Israel, Jews and Zionists/Zionism are off limits.

I try to say with the group name that many conspiracy theories concerning 9/11 come from Americans, so they are an "inside job" one can say these theories or those that spout them. I also give some examples of Americans who have done this like Sofia Shafquat who made "9/11 Mysteries" (video), Richard Gage, the Loose Change-boys and others.

Chief among them though is Alex Jones so I list him first.


Well, one day I was in another 9/11-group where truthers are mocked, but are also very active. We were discussing something and Alex Jones' name came up. Another guy made a very good comment about Alex Jones, which I thought was spot on:

So, I copied it and posted it in my group as a stand alone post everyone can see (my group is public), as seen above. The same day, I saw a request to join the group from an "Alex Jones". I first thought it was one of the truthers I fought with at times in the other group who joined with a fake account because he thinks I talk about Alex Jones too much. But when I looked at the Alex Jones that asked to join my group, it seemed like the official personal account of the real Alex Jones (he has a page too). I may be mistaken, but I am fairly sure it's his personal account at least. You can view it here.

Here you can see Alex Jones request to join. It says he has 23 friends in the group. The "funny language" is Swedish, which happens to be my native language.

So, I let him in and he liked 2 of my comments when I said this was his account and not his page on the post where I welcomed him to the group. See below:

It says I added him to the group and some comments are not shown. Alex Jones also "liked" Margery's comments and another person's comment. Apart from this I have not seen him being active in the group.


Since before I have Dan Bidondi in the group, who is a reporter for Alex Jones, or has been. I haven't been sure about if it really was him or not, but teased him a bit and when I made an insulting post about Alex Jones, I often tagged Bidondi and told him to show it to Alex Jones... That COULD be a reason why AJ joined, but I don't know. Nor do I know what he plans to do in the group either.

He shows a sense of humor or something by asking to join when I posted a comment which pretty much trashed him. I thought that was hilarious.


Future will tell what AJ will do in my group if anything, but if this truly is AJ (one can never be too certain), then I feel like I have personally come pretty much "full circle" in my 9/11 debunking or 9/11-interest as I started to become interested in the 9/11-conspiracies after seeing his "old" movie "Terrorstorm".


Thank you for reading.

Happy debunking/truthing!