onsdag 23 maj 2018

Why do we debate 9/11? [main aims and why]

Why do we debate 9/11?

It can be useful to take a step back from the heated rhetoric and ask ourselves this question. I'll give my answer in this post. Why do I ask it? Because many have for years been stubborn and kept one position and kept "in a camp".

The main goal: finding the truth

Might seem like a given, but it is not. Why? Some have agendas that might make the agenda be the main goal, to push for something or other. If your income is dependent upon you doubting the "official" 9/11 "story", then you very likely will doubt it. These agenda-driven people are often the loudest voices, but they really are not debating I would argue, in one sense because they are only pushing an agenda. There are several agendas, ranging from well-meaning war-protestors to anti-semites.

The 2nd reason why it may not be a given to find the truth is that perhaps we don't even yet agree on what the truth looks like. or how we know we have found it. For some it might be what mainstream media does not say and that fits these people's view of the world. 

For me, it is "proven beyond a reasonable doubt". This is still somewhat subjective since "reasonable doubt" might be different for me compared to someone else. but it's pretty good. I think I should not have different standards here from other cases. So, if I do not generally suspect police to plant evicence in other cases, then I should not expect that here. That's one example. If I would see that they had, then of course that would be terrible and cause me to have big doubts.

Also, we may differ on what constitutes evidence. As a clear example of that, many truthers seem convinced they have overwhelming evidence 9/11 was an inside job or some other conspiracy besides the AQ-conspiracy. They "know what happened". Meanwhile, us debunkers might think they very little evidence while we think we have a lot.

But, in any case, this is the main goal and should be our focus. As you may notice, I did not write a word about insulting the other in the text above. That distracts from this main goal. It may very often also be very bad against the person subjected to that treatment. If we can see that this is our main goal, then maybe we can see our debating opponents as more of a "help" as they can help us test our own theories. If we have solid theories, then no objection ought to be able to destroy the theory.

The reason we want to find the truth is of course to assert blame, so the ones remaining alive and guilty can be charged.

Second goal: teach others

Many of us, regardless of sides, have researched this and learned a lot. We can teach others who have studied, but might have missed something that we have learned as 9/11 is a fairly complex matter if one delves into the many theories and facts. but mostly we can teach those who have not had the time to study this as much as we have. Those with superficial knowledge of the theories might benefit a lot from our knowledge. Also, today we have lots of fake news going around, and since day 1 basically, we have had people with various agendas as mentioned before, and they may not want to disseminate the truth sadly(unless it benefits them).

Third goal: learn more

Regardless of which side we are on, we might learn from others with other perspectives. Perhaps they have looked into something we haven't. Bringing that up in a debate might enrich our knowledge. If that indeed is the case, then we again can see how opponents can become a help.

(Fourth goal: conspiratainment)

I put this in parenthesis as this is not really a goal, but often a good thing to do to make the discussions more fun. There are many conspiracy theories that can become quite funny. I call it "conspiratainment". Whether it be Richard Gage dropping boxes or AJ talking about gay frogs.

(Fifth goal: stand up against cyber-bullying and bad insults)

Some harsh words are unavoidable when it comes to debating and some insults will almost certainly come. However, there's rarely any need for the worst insults and maybe even threats etc. We should try to avoid the worst insults. Agenda-driven people might deserve insults at times though. but I mean that people we only debate with that have a differing view should we try to not insult that badly. Everyone is a person and times are tough enough as they are. Also, I think we should try and respect those that have sadly passed away with time, even if they were on the other side. Michael Ruppert for example. Can throw in standing up against racism or anti-semitism etc. in there also.


Summary

These are my goals of what I ideally think are the goals with debating 9/11 and I think they are important to keep in mind to keep the discussions fruitful. of course, we are all individuals, and your goals might differ from mine. My opinion is that these are the good goals with discussing though.





måndag 21 maj 2018

Undeniable proof demolitions were not used in the twin towers?

Twin tower floor connectors


In a recent debate about the Twin towers, I recalled that NIST wrote that all connectors (I thought bolts) below impact were pointing downward. This clearly shows something pressed on them downward and bent them. A demolition would not have done that. Some might get twisted, but they wouldn't in that case all be twisted downward.

To me, who is not an expert, this is an undeniable proof that there was no demolition.

More specific and where to find the info yourself


To be specific, it was so-called floor truss connectors that pointed downwards. As far as I can understand, these are the "plates" that connect to the outer columns and that the floors then rest on. You can, if you want, read about these floor truss connectors in NIST NCSTAR 1-3 here . That will take you to the whole PDF so it might take you some time to load. Then you can go to section 3.5.3 on page 117 of that report. Some truss connectors were missing.

Page 119, the summary, also brings this up.

Caveat, and important to bring up, is that NIST thinks there are too few samples and too random to see a pattern. They are the experts and I acknowledge that. but in the summary, you can see that 93% of the truss connectors in WTC1, and 88% of the truss connectors in WTC2 were pointing downwards or missing.

NIST mentions in the summary (last sentence) that fracture indicate overloading during collapse.

Regarding the bolts, most of those they found had broken off or failed. I mention this, because some claim the bolts were very strong. Section E.7 also mentions that the major failure mechanism was fracture of the bolts. Page 18's second paragraph mentions breaking of the bolts also. Page 108 brings up different bolt failures too.
Section 3.4.4 on page 114, 2nd paragraph, mentions how the Building Performance Assessment Team took pictures of hundreds of columns and panels that had failed at the bolts during collapse. The summary in section 3.4.5 on the same page the major failure mechanism was failure of the bolts even. Section 7.6, page 2.8.2, 2nd paragraph, says the same about major failure mechanism.

Explosive scenario


Again, imagine an explosive scenario. I imagine an explosion similar to a ball of pressure (and more). The pressure from such an explosion I thus imagine would not only push down on such floor truss connectors, or from one direction.

Also, those that espouse the demolition theory say the demolition basically traveled down under the collapse to make the collapse happen.

Summary

So, again, I think these floor truss connectors basically prove there was no demilition by planted explosives. or, at least, I don't see how to reconsile the 2 possibilities. Again, I am no expert, so I could for sure be wrong about this.

Also, there are of course other indicators it wasn't a demolition by explosives like the fact that WTC2 fell first and the lack of any discernible sounds that match those of controlled demolitions.